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easthammer 6:37 Fri Apr 16
Youngsters Training with Pro Clubs

Who has any experience of this, your kids or grandkids?

My youngest Grandson is just six and hasn't yet played more than a handful of friendlies for his local village side. Although after just his first game (in fact it was two short matches on the same morning, last September, which I went to see and saw him score a hat trick in the first and a double hat trick in the second after which a local academy asked if he would like to try out for them. He did and they signed him up. He played in a match for them just before lockdown and did well by all accounts. He played another couple of games for them just the other week and although his team were beaten heavily in one game in another he scored another hat-trick. Now Wycombe Wanderers have asked if he will train with them.

I am sure some of you must have kids or grandkids that have trained with pro sides what is your experience and advice, ( other than the obvious about avoiding nonce trainers and as it is Wycombe be ready to play in the first team next week!)

Both I and his dad are wondering if it is all too quick and whether for the time being he should stick with his mates i the village side which his dad helps to run.

Fifth Column 2:21 Sun Apr 18
Re: Youngsters Training with Pro Clubs

Pedro

Once you're registered as a full Academy player from u9s and older you can only play for one Academy side at any one time. You certainly cannot play for multiple academies at the same time.

U8s and younger you can train with multiple clubs. U9s upwards many kids go to Development Centre sessions which are the level below full Academy side and again you can attend however many of these at the same time as you want. But once youve signed Academy forms that finishes and you're exclusive to that club.

Fifth Column 2:17 Sun Apr 18
Re: Youngsters Training with Pro Clubs

Bfh

That is all brilliant advice and spot on.

So much is down to personality of the child. I've had countless parents ask me about whether to accept an academy place for their child. I remember advising one parent not to take their ten year old to an Academy as the kid wasn't emotionally ready for the discipline expected. Parent ignored me. Kid couldn't handle it and was released in a couple of months. Didn't play grassroots again for six months as he was upset by it. Other kids at same age are much more mentally tough. One kid who was offered a place at 10 I encouraged his family. I knew that without injury he'd be able to make it pro at non league level at least. He's now playing for Benfica u23s.

Point is, so much is based on the child's own personality and the parent should consider this

bfh 12:49 Sun Apr 18
Re: Youngsters Training with Pro Clubs

I'm quite a time into Academy football with my 2 boys and have made some very poor choices. This is what I wish I'd known at the start.

Up to u9 you can train wherever you wish with no commitment although if a club likes a lad they may pressurise you to stop going to any other clubs.

At u9 the academy will sign a team of players and cut back or finish the training of those not signed. If you sign the contract you are attached to that academy and can't train or play anywhere else although the smaller academies generally allow school football. The contract they offer appears to be 1 year and is a generic Premier League/Fa contract. The contract is actually a rolling one which lasts until adulthood and gives that club compensation rights over that player even if the player left many years before after a very small period there. This can seriously effect a players chances as they get older.

Every academy (and even ages within that academy) are very different in their ethos and style of play and this can change very quickly as there is a very big staff turnover, particularly at the smaller academies. This can also lead to a very big player turnover. The academy my younger lads is at has gone from developing small technical younger players in an age to big, strong athletic ones in the hope of selling players on to the bigger academies.

There are 3 categories of academies at the younger ages based on facilities, number of full time staff, amount of training etc.
Cat 1 & 2 play each other, longer journeys although the club often provide transport for the player.
Cat 3 are the smaller academies and play more local although the journey can be over 100 miles each way.

I'd personally take him to the training as the discipline they learn can be very good in other areas of life and certainly think it's helped my boys. I'd be very careful if you get to the point of signing a contract tho and would base that decision more on the personality of the lad at that time as the quieter, more sensitive lads often find the environment too much.

easthammer 3:13 Sun Apr 18
Re: Youngsters Training with Pro Clubs

Thanks, everyone, for your views.

I am not unaware of some of the issues. Although I was not aware of the limitations on what kids can and cannot do once they reach age 9 and are at a Pro Club. For me, it is a little disconcerting. Although I know my Son-in-Law has been looking into that. And although it is a concern, it is a way off and I guess by then we will have more idea if it is the right thing to do.

Neither my Daughter or Son-in-Law are pushy parents (I would say that wouldn't I) But I really don't think they are. None of us is naive and realises most kids don't make it to Pro- Football.

I also know that kids develop at different rates. I was a later developer at football. Average as a schoolboy but by my early 20's I was playing Senior Amateur ( no semi-pro then just brown envelopes,) My skills (or lack of them) were honed playing with my mates over the park I was never really"coached" even when I played for half-decent teams. It was just training. That of course a lot of years ago and I can see that it is different today. Not least of all how quick these clubs seem to be in picking up youngsters. When I was six I probably hadn't bought my first pair of boots!

At the moment all that my Son-in-Law has done is let my Grandson go along to these two academies to see if he enjoys it. Which he does and seems to take it in his stride. So I guess for the moment that's the answer.

Pedro 11:42 Sat Apr 17
Re: Youngsters Training with Pro Clubs

When kids say they want to be a footballer they actually mean they want to be a premier league footballer.

I have to remind them that to get to a level where you are paid to play is very tough. So reaching decent non league is very tough.

Kids can’t always understand that.

Pedro 11:36 Sat Apr 17
Re: Youngsters Training with Pro Clubs

Fifth i meant you can still play for other pro clubs .

Many kids play for Chelsea on a Monday and West Ham on Tuesday etc.
Agreed can’t play for local teams .

The school thing is what annoys me. Kids can play and do PE but clubs do pull them out.

Fifth Column 9:39 Sat Apr 17
Re: Youngsters Training with Pro Clubs

*It's U9s I think actually, not U8s - in reference to conversation with Pedro

Fifth Column 9:38 Sat Apr 17
Re: Youngsters Training with Pro Clubs

easthammer

I was involved in kids football and academies for almost 20 years up to 2019.

Simply put the coaching is generally better at academies. If it's not a long journey for you and you don't dislike the coaches then yes sign them up. They will not only be getting better coaching but also will be playing at a better level and thus improving faster.

Just don't be a #### like so many parents who push their kids incredibly hard and see them as their meal ticket. Encourage your grandson to enjoy it and to work hard but that's it.

Ensure that you know how many times a week you're signing up for and that as a parent/grandparent you're prepared to do all the driving X times a week.

Fifth Column 9:35 Sat Apr 17
Re: Youngsters Training with Pro Clubs

Pedro

"...Until you sign pro forms (old style apprenticeship) you are not attached to a club or academy as such. Up to then you can train with any elite club and play for whoever. "

That's completely untrue. After you've signed for a pro club academy you can't play for anyone else until you're released. You can't play for your local youth league team at the same time - it's against FA regulations. I believe that rule kicks in at U8s.

You can still play for your school team but often academies pressure parents not to play their child in school teams in case they pick up bad habits or get injured

yngwies Cat 11:30 Sat Apr 17
Re: Youngsters Training with Pro Clubs

As mentioned earlier it really can disrupt the pattern and development of the kids developing as a team, and they develop in such different ways,.

Our top striker at aged 6 and 7 who was bagging then in for fun is now our brilliant keeper.

The parents expectations really have to be managed, and anything that takes the fun out of the game.for kids at that age is sad.

Chrisel 11:25 Sat Apr 17
Re: Youngsters Training with Pro Clubs

As some have said, it is an interesting discussion as to when they should be doing this.

My son plays football and cricket and comparing it to cricket (at least in Kent) there's no district side until u11, from which they select the Kent players, which doubt start until u12, I believe.

We've all seen the different rates at which kids develop, to say if you haven't been spotted by 10 means you are unlikely ever to definitely would suggest missing out on a large number of potential players.

yngwies Cat 11:24 Sat Apr 17
Re: Youngsters Training with Pro Clubs

We get a quite scouts coming down to my club. Trouble is the word gets about. We have so many parents now joing the club, who's next question is, will my boy or girl be picked up, Crazy.

We work closely with Brentford, and the kids are given the opportunity to be invited to train with the club. If they really show talent they can sign up to the youth academy, which as 2 tier's...Of Couse they have to pay.

Briano 11:04 Sat Apr 17
Re: Youngsters Training with Pro Clubs

If Wycombe is local then it’s a good opportunity. Kids at that age will benefit from being around other good players. Just don’t take it too seriously and enjoy it. Most get released at some point, some bounce back but for others they are finished, Declan Rice is a perfect example of the positive, I’ve seen two boys released from Chelsea that ended up smoking weed and getting up to no good

A lot of parents lose the plot chasing the dream, it’s a huge commitment taking time off work driving all over the place.

I keep an eye out each week for the boys my lad played with that made the professional game, Derby, Carlisle, Mansfield, Stevenage, Oxford, Aldershot, Chesterfield, St Johnstone...hardly a dream

Alfs 2:10 Sat Apr 17
Re: Youngsters Training with Pro Clubs

My mates son is hired by Arsenal to scout the country looking for kids like your grandson. If they still show glowing promise at 8, most clubs will know about him. And if you haven't been signed by the age of 10, you're very unlikely to ever be.

Pedro 1:40 Sat Apr 17
Re: Youngsters Training with Pro Clubs

Also bit of a misconception that have to play for a really good local team to be spotted.

Harry Winks(yes I know) never won a cup / league with his local team. He never played in any top division.

Pedro 1:36 Sat Apr 17
Re: Youngsters Training with Pro Clubs

Always think it’s a interesting question.

I have personal interest in this mainly now through my coaching. Previously going through it but also knowing lots of kids who have gone through the system.

I think it is too young. I am of the view that if good enough you will be found later when old enough to deal with the pressures.

Being associated to an academy at that age is good for profile and confidence but doesn’t mean much in terms of what happens later.

Until you sign pro forms (old style apprenticeship) you are not attached to a club or academy as such. Up to then you can train with any elite club and play for whoever. Kai Corbett good example at West Ham.

Biggest risk is the dreaded tap on the shoulder saying not to come back the next week or season as academy don’t want you anymore. That’s tough explaining to a child.

It’s all a bit murky as well. Have seen clubs eye up a great local player. Knowing his team manager wouldn’t want him to leave they have pretended to also want to take the coaches son - in effect to act as a sweetener and then both players go! Once in the academy they dump the coaches son etc.

Not sure if still accurate but I have known clubs go into schools and take out their academy player from PE lessons as they don’t want other teachers / coaches passing on different messages.
When it impacts on schooling there is a problem!

On positive side I do agree the coaching is of a good level but they will be very demanding. Lots of training and pressure to win matches.

I have a soft spot for what they call the second tier academies such as Colchester / Ipswich / Southend . Better atmosphere there in my view but they would get hammered if came up against likes of Chelsea.

lowermarshhammer 11:30 Fri Apr 16
Re: Youngsters Training with Pro Clubs

I wonder what the percentage of pro footballers who still play in the same position that they did in the under 11's is?

I would imagine if you had clear talent at that age and hadn't been groomed (cough) by a scout or club the team coach/ manager would either have you at centre mid or up front and nowhere else.

Dicko75 9:05 Fri Apr 16
Re: Youngsters Training with Pro Clubs

Do it. He will get better coaching and more regular and competitive games than with the village team. And if he doesn’t enjoy it he can always go back.

Just be realistic. Fulham, as an example, trial about 600 kids to select the 18 within their under 10 academy team.

I had a similar conversation with a mate 4 years ago who’s lad had been asked to join an premier league academy and they wanted to move the kid to London (we live outside the uk) and school him. In the end he went for it and the lad has loved it and is expected to break first team next season. He’s also been playing international level for last 3 years, travelling the world. He would never have had those opportunities or development staying local. Good luck

the straw 8:45 Fri Apr 16
Re: Youngsters Training with Pro Clubs

I coach a team in the Echo Premier League. Under 9's. Most of the kids train with academies such as West Ham, Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea, Southend, Colchester, Orient. I have some experience in scouting and bringing players into West Ham but stopped recently because I found it weird. At a tournament last week in Barking you had 40 year old grown men chasing after 6 and 7 year olds. It's all very strange. It doesn't feel right. There are a lot of egos flying around as well.

Every year group in an academy will have a few different levels; Elite, Development , Talent ID and then satellite academies (which seem to be a bit of a scam, this is where parents pay for their kids to be there and these kids obviously aren't good enough to be at an academy but the parents want to see them in a pro clubs kit and brag about it).

The training is all much of a muchness at that age, what they do at West Ham and Spurs will be exactly what we do at our sessions, they just might do it more often. Any team in that top division of the Echo league is going to be very good and the players will all be known to the academies anyway. This is the same for some other leagues as well.

When you sign a contract with a pro academy at age 9 and above you are not then allowed to play for grassroots clubs. This is what I think is wrong. I think kids should be allowed to play with their mates at least up until 12/13.

Jim C 7:33 Fri Apr 16
Re: Youngsters Training with Pro Clubs

Congratulations to your Grandson firstly. Regardless of what happens from here that is a big achievement.

From a personal point of view, I think that is far too young. As someone with a bit of coaching experience and having seen how some clubs run, I would say give it a go, however make sure you and all other adults keep his feet firmly on the ground, as plenty of coaches fill the kids heads with promises of stardom and very few make it.

Pay close attention to how they speak with the children. A few years ago, player I coached went onto a huge clubs academy. I then bumped into his older brother and discovered he left and went to a smaller team. At the bigger club it was pressure to win, pressue to do this and that. At the smaller team, he was allowed to express himself and play his natural game which suited him and he has got better as a result.

Full Claret Jacket 7:25 Fri Apr 16
Re: Youngsters Training with Pro Clubs

My son played for some Fulham teams and Surrey at a youngish age but it wasn't for him and in truth he probably didn't have the driven mentality you see in some.
In my experience it becomes less fun for the kid, full of annoying wannabe parents and it's pretty ruthless. There certainly was a number of kids who slagged off their team mates at every opportunity - no doubt passing on their parents views.

My advice would be to let him have fun with his mates with a local team or little league and if he continues to shine and wants to dedicate time to it when he is older do it then. Very often you find kids who are ahead of their peers physically or in ability but the others catch up within a few years.

The chances of getting anywhere in Football are tiny and having a fun and happy time when you are young outweighs the slim chance of semi-pro or Pro football years later in my view.

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